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UPDATE: Statute of limitations barred judge from ordering new bond vote
By KEN FOUNTAIN March 31, 2010 Posted: March 31, 2010, 10:00 AM CDT Last updated: March 31, 2010, 9:06 PM CDT The Beaumont school district can immediately proceed with the demolition of South Park Middle School, an attorney for the district said Wednesday, even after a state district judge reiterated that its officials had committed "fraud" on taxpayers in the 2007 bond election by the stance they had the school's future. Judge Bob Wortham of the 58th District Court also said if he had not been limited by the pleadings in the case and the statute of limitations, he would have been required to order a new bond election based on the evidence presented. Wortham found Wednesday that the district's board and administration had misled voters by saying they would not tear down the 1923 structure when they in fact already had decided to demolish it. At the school district attorney's request, Wortham issued written "findings of fact and conclusions of law" that supported the permanent injunction he verbally granted the plaintiffs in February in the almost year-long dispute. The document from Wortham allows the school district to appeal if its officials so choose. Comments: the trainman wrote: Mad as hell,yes,reality has set in and now one must go forward.Vented anger and frustations will be very active at the Ballot Box. 04/02/2010 09:40 AM CDT GREENIE 1969 wrote: If Thomas thinks he can scare GREENIES .He is Crazy.If they go a head and try to tear South Park down Thomas and his cronies could all go to Jail.Old Saying Its not over until the FAT LADY SINGS. And I haven't started singing 04/01/2010 08:20 PM CDT Wavy Gravy wrote: Thomas just doesn't care about taxpayer money. It's free money to him. Spend it like a fool on a gambling boat. 04/01/2010 06:34 PM CDT Wavy Gravy wrote: Waste? Thomas can't possibly care about waste...........unless it comes out of his pocket directly. As long as he's spending taxpayer money, that filthy bastard could care less. 04/01/2010 06:32 PM CDT TexasGirl1960 wrote: Thanks CharlesRay, but it does appear that the BISD board members have their own agenda. It's not about fiscal responsibility, it's about "winning" at all costs for them. It's a shame to see people act this way. The extra $20 million they would save would sure help out inside the classrooms in the way of materials, extra teacher aide's, whatever they could provide. Seems like such a waste. 04/01/2010 04:15 PM CDT buddy wrote: IF the school is demolished, place Doc Thomas and the present board inside the school before the destruction begins. Replace them afterward with a new superintendent and board. This is a golden opportunity, Beaumont! 04/01/2010 03:29 PM CDT fredsaid wrote: Deep Thoughts, from DR Thomass:: "Meetings go smoothly as long as all involved stay on track. Side conversations, passing notes, walking around, answering telephones, texting and other distractions make for ineffective and poor meetings. To get the most of meetings, including making them timely and rendering more effective results, each of you should heed to the rules of respecting each other and fulfilling the purpose of gathering together. These are critical for meeting success." 04/01/2010 11:16 AM CDT Bodine Gunch wrote: Carroll Thomas = BISD = Fraud.. FRAUD.. What part of this are ya'll missing.. It should mean removal from post immediately.. Is FRAUD not a crime? 04/01/2010 10:59 AM CDT corky2 wrote: Fraud is a crime last time I checked. Chappell can 'disagree' with the Judge all she wants but I am sure he chose his words carefully. I am amazed how she can be so flippant about the ruling of a Judge...when she comments, it's as though she is on equal terms as the Judge. She's an attorney who was hired based partly on reasons other than qualifications. There were more qualified, experienced applicants for her job, but they chose Melody, who now seems to think she has superior judicial understanding than a state district judge. You would think she'd make an effort to rebut the fraud charge but instead distracts by alluding to what SHE thinks is the real issue. When you can't persuade, confuse... She's running interference for those who should be answering the fraud charge. 04/01/2010 10:06 AM CDT Wavy Gravy wrote: Carrol Thomas is not trying to save the district money. If he chooses not to save millions in renovation costs vs new construction, then he should make up the difference with his salary. Thomas' salary should be connected to his financial irresponsibility toward the taxpayers. Currently he has no desire to save BISD diddlysquat because it doesn't affect his personal bottom line. Perspective plays a part in leadership. 04/01/2010 08:51 AM CDT TEXAS13 wrote: Is this all ya'll have to fight about? Just tear the thing down, get over it & move on. How much time has been wasted to this one thing. 04/01/2010 08:34 AM CDT Stewie wrote: I agree with Wavy and Ringo. Save the money. It WILL be needed towards the end of the project to finish what was started. 04/01/2010 08:25 AM CDT fredsaid wrote: Wow, with a judges legal opinion stating that BISD committed, "Fraud" on taxpayers, we now get a legal opinion from BISD's incompetent lawyer that claims the same judges decision as a right to go forward with the, "Fraud"! Amazing what a tribal summit will come up with, voodoo logic! 04/01/2010 07:58 AM CDT CharlesRay wrote: Right on, texas girl. Responsibility and common sense seem to have eluded the current crop of BISD board members. South Park will stand! 04/01/2010 07:53 AM CDT timwopel wrote: god i hope they push this through and knock that eyesore down fast! 04/01/2010 07:03 AM CDT TexasGirl1960 wrote: It's also about fiscal responsibility. The facade of the building can be saved and the interior gutted and brought to state of the art for $20 million. To knock it down and build a new school would cost $43 million. Now what is more reasonable? Either way the interior of the school will be state of the art. The last time I was in school, the interior is where the kids are! So in these economic times, what makes more sense? I don't know about you, but the millions in dollars in savings would be a good thing for BISD. Think of the wonderful programs they could fund with that money! How many teachers could they hire? Or how much quicker could they repay the bond loan? 04/01/2010 06:41 AM CDT Ringo wrote: Sorry about some misspellings...some of my keys don't react at times when struck. I hope I got my point across, but didn't want poor grammar to take away from it. It's just that this old building could be made into a centerpiece of the community, and something the entire neighborhood would be proud of. And for it to be structurally sound...I just don't get it (well, I DO get it, actually. Pietzsch Elementary was demolished because of the WANT, not need, of a new shiny building. But that's another lost battle..., and more lost taxpayer dollars.) 03/31/2010 11:30 PM CDT Ringo wrote: PART TWO...OK, all that's OFF the table now, right? The building itself is in good condition, and worth of being remodeled. The engineers agree the building is sound. The costs I've seen tossed around are something like 18 million to remodel versus 40-50 million to tear down and replace. Holy crap, that's all I need to know to KNOW that's the right thing to do. Geez, if the building was in bad condition and it was economically wrong to remodel, then I'd be all for tearing it down. No problem. But that isn't the case, is it? It's just economic good sense to keep it and remodel it. By the way, I'm class of '72, and and over a dozen family menbers have graduated from and or taught at South Park High. So, yes, I care, but to me it's all about what's right for the taxpayer (I'm one, too), and that's to remodel it, and save us about 30 million dollars. Sounds simple to me.....(if it were only so). 03/31/2010 11:22 PM CDT Ringo wrote: PART ONE...For argument's sake, let's forget about the building's history. Forget it was the birthplace of Lamar. Forget Thomas and his gang lied . Forget you, or your mama, or your grandmother went there. Forget it's old (but sound). Forget that "Greenie Fight Never Dies" (I'm happy no one's brought that up yet in this series of comments. I personally think sentimental comments like that take away from the credibility of how serious this is.). Forget BISD want to remove the crown jewel (someone called it, and I agree) of the old South Park Independent School District. Forget the fact that BISD has, and has had for decades before the forced merger of the districts, a long history of poor or no ongoing preventative maintenance of their buildings (think back to the time of the forced merger, and compare the condition of the BISD buildings to the SPISD buildings...remember?) Forget any racial thoughts anyone might have about the old days (terrible things happened, and there's been two generations of trying to make things right...let's move forward). continued... 03/31/2010 11:20 PM CDT Ringo wrote: a 03/31/2010 11:16 PM CDT corky2 wrote: Slight of hand....Obama won the popular vote by 5 million plus! He won 'cold and hard' as you put it. Is this getting through? Did you watch the wrong election? Are you in the BISD bond acquisition division? Thomas on the other hand was not elected, and he is a crook. He is a legend in his own mind. Nuggets of Wisdom, indeed. 03/31/2010 10:48 PM CDT Beekeeper wrote: The electorate vote sucks. The numbers should spell out the winner and not some slight of hand BS weighted vote. How do we elect mayors and city council members? It ain't no electorate vote snafu corky2. It's the cold hard numbers added up and the winner is the one with the most votes. Let's just hope Bob Wortham's decision rights the wrongs that the Thomas puppetmaster has brought forth against the will of the people. South Park should stand tall and proud for decades to come. 03/31/2010 08:56 PM CDT corky2 wrote: 65 mil is more than 60 last time I checked and you may have proven that McCain carried the rural states. Eureka! We haven't had 48 states in a while so I checked; Obama won 28 states + D.C. and Mc Cain a Zippy won 22 state. This would all be important if the electoral system wasn't the 'law.' 365-173 was the count... Our President and the gaffe master won by a larger margin of electoral votes than McCain and Einstein even received.Your facts are not facts, Keeper of Bees. I do like the popular vote idea. Dr. Joe may not be a 'go to' kinda guy. You may want to check your other sources as well. Wortham's language was pretty damning for the district. Between SP and the Bond buying scam, we do need to 'reload' (board members)! 03/31/2010 08:18 PM CDT rbblum wrote: Sounds as though the BISD players rank right up there with the national politicians and will not hesitate to impose their decisions over the interest of 'the people' within the local community. The choice is simple . . . sit down and speak not or take at least one small step in order to make a difference. 03/31/2010 08:17 PM CDT GALATIONS 4:16 wrote: New Buildings dont educate kids. The South End parents need to step up and stay married, quit having illegitimate kids, mow your yards and paint your houses. Quit living off the government. This will teach your children more than anything. My former home in South Beaumont was recently bulldozed because its lazy owner would not keep it up. Prove me wrong. Please!!! 03/31/2010 07:23 PM CDT bill73 wrote: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!!!!!!!!! 03/31/2010 06:36 PM CDT Beekeeper wrote: For you Corky2: BRING BACK THE POPULAR VOTE!!!! Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul , Minnesota , points out some interesting facts concerning last November's Presidential election: Number of States won by: Obama: 19 McCain: 29 Square miles of land won by: Obama: 580,000 McCain: 2,427,000 Population of counties won by: Obama: 127 million McCain: 143 million 03/31/2010 06:35 PM CDT fredsaid wrote: "I have no idea," Thomas said. "I don't know about all of this. It is something that we didn't know about. I can't make any comments about it whatsoever when I don't know about it. So, I would rather find out about it before I made any comments about it." 03/31/2010 06:11 PM CDT Axiom wrote: Reparations by any other name. 03/31/2010 05:49 PM CDT Beekeeper wrote: Two peas in the same pod. It's pretty simple. They both want what they want regardless of the majority of the people. 03/31/2010 05:30 PM CDT bluedog23 wrote: Regardless of which side you are on the board intentionally misled the voting public in order to boost support for the bond issue. And what does Obama have to do with any of this? 03/31/2010 04:54 PM CDT corky2 wrote: Wavy, I agree with you that he committed perjury saying he didn't know who made the statement that SP would be saved. I also agree that the promise should be kept, and that it does seem like a vendetta, but you should know, being a Forest Park graduate that at least 5 schools remain from old SPISD...FP, SP, Vincent, Marshall, Hebert (Ozen). Probably many others as well. To answer your question, Beekeeper, 65 million American voters put him there because they were ready for someone with some intelligence, again, and the GOP could do no better than a dip s**t (no disrespect for his service) flip flopper and a hayseed pin head from Alaska. I just can't understand what this has to do with BISD's malfeasance with the bond monies. If you think he's a Muslim or not a citizen, you, sir, are the 'Fringe' element in our society. That capitalism was really on a roll when Obama took over, right. Keep South Park, Keep the promise. 03/31/2010 03:52 PM CDT JangilingJack wrote: What in the hell is wrong with Wortham. Is he a nut? This deadbeat got back in office by virtue of no opponent and now he thinks he gets to cruise for the next four years? 03/31/2010 01:44 PM CDT timwopel wrote: they can knock it down tomorrow if they want...bye bye building 03/31/2010 01:38 PM CDT Beekeeper wrote: Obama has lied to himself and others all of his foreign born muslim life. His CHANGE & HOPE is............CHANGE America from capitalism to socialism...........and............HOPE he can complete the task before the people can react to it. He's a post turtle. Here's the story: While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old Texas rancher, whose hand was caught in a gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man. Eventually the topic got around to Obama and his bid to be our President. The old rancher said, 'Well, ya know, Obama is a 'post turtle'.' Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a 'post turtle' was. The old rancher said, 'When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a 'post turtle'.' The old rancher saw a puzzled look on the doctor's face, so he continued to explain. 'You know he didn't get up there by himself, he doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do while he is up there, and you just wonder what kind of a dumb ass put him up there!.' 03/31/2010 01:32 PM CDT Wavy Gravy wrote: If history is worth teaching, then it's worth preserving. That's just a fact. There has never been a reason to tear down South Park. Carrol Thomas just had an agenda to scorch earth the entire district that saved BISD's demise. It's became a personal vendetta with Carrol Thomas and you can't prove otherwise. How many original SPISD buildings are still standing today vs original BISD buildings standing? That's right. You got the picture. But, taking the crown jewel of South Park? That's over the top. The madness must end. South Park's main campus 1923 building is also the birthplace of Lamar University. To preserve history is to teach history. Don't be misled by those who tell you 'new is better' or 'we're doing it for the children'. That's just utter BS. Renovation with saving the facade is not only possible, but monetarily prudent as well. Beaumont can't afford to keep destroying historical landmarks. Our entire being is because of this location and it's oil history. South Park was built on the backs of these oil workers and their families. If history and community pride is worth teaching, it's worth preserving. 03/31/2010 01:12 PM CDT bigmike wrote: THEY ALL LIE, EVEN MR. WONDERFUL OBAMA HE'S LYING ABOUT HEALTH CARE. 03/31/2010 12:56 PM CDT EPN wrote: It's not just about memories. Lying to get what you want @ others expense is not a respectable thing to do and has to be stopped. It just so happens that this time who they're picking on is not taking it lightly, not should they. It's called INTEGRITY! Yes, it is worth teaching. Thank you Judge Wortham! 03/31/2010 12:48 PM CDT bigmike wrote: WHO CARES LIFE GOES ON , WE ALL LIVE AND DIE AND AND OLD BUILDINGS GO THE SAME WAY. BURN IT, BLOW IT UP WHO CARES . THE MEMORIES ARE IN YOUR MIND NOT IN THE BUILDING. 03/31/2010 12:30 PM CDT Wavy Gravy wrote: How abouit NEVER, timwopel? Lying in court is a crime. How about a little prison time for Carrol Thomas? Yeah, baby. Just DO IT. Let's see if the BISD BULLY can survive general pop as the HUNTSVILLE HOMEBOY punk. 03/31/2010 12:15 PM CDT timwopel wrote: when the dozers make it a moot point... 03/31/2010 10:52 AM CDT mae wrote: Lord have mercy when will it end? 03/31/2010 10:38 AM CDT |