South Park testimony ends

By KEN FOUNTAIN
September 22, 2009
Posted: September 21, 2009, 9:17 PM CDT

Last updated: September 22, 2009, 11:22 AM CDT



Testimony concluded Tuesday morning and the judge retired to consider his decision in the South Park case.

Judge Bob Wortham asked the parties to consider obtaining an outside, independent engineer to look at how much it would cost to renovate the building.

Wortham said he would make a decision as promptly as possible.

Tempers flared following the proceedings when one man, who opposes a new building, shouted angrily at attorney Micheal Getz and the Greenies.


COMMENTS

GREENIE 1969 wrote:
At least one BISD board member has the guts to stand up and tell what is going at BISD. And lI applaud him.The rest needs to be put out to pasture
09/23/2009 10:46 AM CDT


sig220 wrote:
You really want to change BISD? Simple go to a school board with three districts and four at-large seats. Then you will have change. As it is the districts are gerrymandered so that the South Park districts have much fewer voters than the West End which dilutes the West End voters. Three districts and 4 at large. That will go a long way toward fixing the problems.
09/23/2009 07:08 AM CDT


pall2509 wrote:
You can keep the exterior while completely renovating the interior. It would not be dark and gloomy as stated. The White House is over 200 years old and believe it or not has "electricity and running water". BISD does not maintain their property, and this does not change regardless of new or renovated.
09/23/2009 06:26 AM CDT


Lab Rat wrote:
The BISD committed suicide before. They are doing it again. Who will they be attached to this time? Vidor?
09/22/2009 11:55 PM CDT


bluedog23 wrote:
How can anyone resist making a few points? 1) Was Dr. Thomas' compensation linked to getting the bond passed? Please tell me this is not true. 2) South Park is of a different era and architectural style than Charlton Pollard. 3) If you were Dr. Thomas and the board how would you go about achieving the goal of having the school demolished? You would reduce the maintenance to nothing and then use the building's poor physical state as an argument in favor of having it demolished. 4) You can't compare this building to tearing down an old nondescript house of no historical value. 5) If you do not like Dr. Thomas and his agenda then fire the school board if they will not fire him. (This will never happen because no one votes and Dr. Thomas and the board are well aware of that. That's why the courts will ultimately resolve this issue. Yes there will be more courst if BISD loses, they will appeal. They have all the tax dollars to spend on legal fees.)
09/22/2009 09:44 PM CDT


EPN wrote:
If my memory serves me correctly they CLOSED CP and sent everybody to another school right? Is that what your suggesting? Again, IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO TEAR DOWN THE SP BLDG IN ORDER TO GET A MIDDLE SCHOOL IN THE SOUTH PARK AREA!
09/22/2009 08:47 PM CDT


j ray wrote:
THATS NOT WHAT I MEAN . I MEAN THAT WHEN A BLDG IS NO MAINTAINABLE. IM GOING TO TELL LIKE THEY TOLD US IN 1975.GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON. HOW DO THINK THAT FELT AS KID BEING TOLD THAT.MAIN THING .THIS IS FOR THE KIDS
09/22/2009 08:37 PM CDT



EPN wrote:
Your missing the point. IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO TEAR DOWN THE SP BLDG IN ORDER TO GET A MIDDLE SCHOOL IN THE SOUTH PARK AREA! They need to build a new school (maybe) but not right there in place of the old one. If they put a new school first and then move the students that would be the proper thing to do. All of these kids will have memories of will be going to school in portable buildings....pfft!
09/22/2009 08:11 PM CDT



EPN wrote:
@ j ray What you mean is BISD doesn't maintain it well. Well, that's no surprise. @thib It does matter that it has history...it's history of Beaumont and people DO care that's why people are standing up for it. Dr. Thomas and company had to LIE to even get the bond passed. It went as a fact today! Mrs. Ortego is a fine lady.
09/22/2009 08:02 PM CDT


Mamagistra wrote:
Dsub, they are most certainly being robbed if South Park is destroyed.
09/22/2009 07:56 PM CDT


Dsub wrote:
Ok Yall r not getting what thib is say the children are gettin robbed. and when stop thinking about self you will noticed that
09/22/2009 07:53 PM CDT


j ray wrote:
MY SON WENT TO THAT SCHOOL AND I WALK THOSE HALL 3 YRS . THE MAINTENCE WORKERS ARE NOT ABLE MAINTAIN A BUILDING THATS TO OLD
09/22/2009 07:49 PM CDT


Mamagistra wrote:
"[I]t dosent (sic) matter were the school came from or the historic value." Thib, it does matter and it does have value, both to the city and its children. Despite what you see in the media, people of all races and creeds are fighting to save this building, so your rhetoric is moot.
09/22/2009 07:18 PM CDT


j ray wrote:
THATS LAMARS HIHTORY
09/22/2009 07:11 PM CDT


thib wrote:
EPN it dosent matter were the school came from or the historic value. The damm school is old. Just because you have semeintal feeling for it why hender the kids from making their own memories in their own building. When i went to south park that school was old. It rain in the class rooms among other things. I bet if this was out by marshall middle school or even west brook. this little matter wouldnt even came to court. All you see on TV is old white prejudice people trying to save the school and half of them dont have any intrest in beaumont. Come get real even if south park was more historical than all the other school tha was torn down. It just means the building should been torn down with the rest of them. What these people need to do is buy Dr. Thomas out and get the school off the BISD property if it means that much to them. TO EPN I BET YOUR CHILDREN DONT EVEN STEP FOOT IN SOUTH PARK MIDDLE SCHOOL THINK ABOUT THAT.
09/22/2009 07:09 PM CDT


EPN wrote:
@ j ray re: "C.P HAD MORE HISTORICAL MAENING THEN S.P EVER. AND BEAUMONT HIGH HAD MORE HISTORY AS ABUILDING. " Where do you get that?..That middle school on Highland once the very begining of Lamar College, today it's called Lamar University. Then it was SPHS when SPISD & BISD merged it became South Park Middle School. It had a historical marker already on it.
09/22/2009 06:55 PM CDT


EPN wrote:
@thib Did you know there is a BISD admin annex on Woodrow & Park street? It used to be the SPISD administration bldg, along with a warehouse and a baseball field. That's the bldg I am referring to. It's is very sad shape and still being used for BISD employee offices. It floods quite often. The CP school does not even compare the SPHS bldg, that's why nobody stood up for saving. it. @bowd What about the school next door? Who says Pietzsch & SPMS have to be together. Most of the other schools in BMT now are not like that. Yes, it was really cool when there were all three (Pietzsch, MacArthur, & SP) but that will never be again. Where southend post office is was once the place of another elementary school. The new school could be put on that big property on Woodrow OR behind the SPHS bldg OR there's plenty of delapitated old houses that could go to put it up (Lamar does that all the time.) It's just not necessary to tear down the historic bldg in order to put up a new school. A new school does not mean new learning. There were & are many highly intelligent professionals that were schooled in OLD bldgs and liked it.
09/22/2009 06:41 PM CDT


j ray wrote:
nobody is thinking about the children in that building .the building is dark gloomy like a prioson.as we all know this in school in the 60s through 70s was no factor at all.i say becuuse i paticpated in uil music and sports. and if you want some history what happened beaumont high,charlton pollard ,hebert high. we were told as children that these had to go .but C.P HAD MORE HISTORICAL MAENING THEN S.P EVER. AND BEAUMONT HIGH HAD MORE HISTORY AS ABUILDING.
09/22/2009 06:35 PM CDT


thib wrote:
I read your comment about moving the Adm. Bld. for what. Administration don't need a new building South Pard need a new building. Why uproot children from this area to satisfy people with sentimential values. Be for real
09/22/2009 05:55 PM CDT


thib wrote:
comments on South Park School-Ithe school should be sold to the greenies their responsibilty to move the school of fBISD property. if they don't want to buy the school, they shouldn't be allowed to stop the progress for higher and safe learning. When Charlton Pollard School was demolished you didn't see the historic people running to save that school. It was old and needed to be torn down. wonder how many of these people even live in Beaumont, have grandchildren go to South Park. They could care less about a decent place to go to school. To tell truth that school should have been demolished years ago. I can't believe we are throwing tax payers good hard earn money away on sentimential values, COME ON GREENIES you have had your time in school and this is all you got of it is sentimential values.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09/22/2009 05:49 PM CDT


bowd wrote:
HillenrandtHoney- i understand what you are saying. Then the question is raised about the kids whose brother and sisters attend the school next door, what do you do with them. When they walk over each day to wait on their older siblings. Are what about the kids in that neighborhood that walk to school each day. Where would you put the new school?
09/22/2009 05:00 PM CDT


HillebrandtHoney wrote:
No one is saying that the kids can't have a new school when they preserve the old building. As EPN writes - move Administration to the newly renovated SPHS bulding, build a new school on the vacant land (kids get a new school!), and then sell the current Admin building (which is prime IH-10 real estate) to pay for all of this? Then everyone wins - the kids get a new school, SPHS is saved and the taxpayers get a break (the proceeds from the sale of the current admin property)! It's a WIN- WIN-WIN situation and no one loses out - oh yes, except the lawyers!
09/22/2009 02:13 PM CDT


bowd wrote:
For those of you that constantly comment on the beauty of South Park, when was the last time any of you ever stepped foot inside the school buidling? Yes from the outside the buidling looks beautiful but underneath the floors and behind the walls it is a different story. The egos that I speak of are those of Dr. Thomas AND the people that HATE him. I grew up in an household where the children never heard grownfolks argue.... You are so busy blaming Thomas for everything that is wrong with BISD, lets not forget that he was hired by the board, who was elected by the voters. I pay taxes too and I also know that the city of Beaumont uses up most of my tax money than BISD, who recieves their money from the state and federal government. Commenting and blogging about the situation is great it allows you to vent your personal feelings but it is pointless if you are unwilling to do anything about it. I believe that those students deserve a new school just like the other students at the other schools....
09/22/2009 02:12 PM CDT


EPN wrote:
I am one more for the saving of the SP bldg. They DO NOT have to tear down the old bldg in order to get a new school. I lived the SP area for over 30 years and moved last year, main reason was to get my children OUT of BISD! BISD has never been good. Has anybody taken a good look at the BISD administration annex on Woodrow street lately, it has deteriorated something fierce. Why not let the admin staff move into the old SP bldg and still build a new school for the kids (just a thought). It just goes to show that it REALLY is a power play and Dr. Thomas and accompliances DO have ulterior motives. Again, BISD has never been good, the stink is still there.
09/22/2009 01:49 PM CDT



shark wrote:
Corky I agree with your statement, and as I have stated Thomas is a crook and that is a matter that needs to be addressed when WE elect our NEW school board and get rid of the Thomas yes men. BUT the fact still remains that we owe it to the children to build them a NEW school not refurbish an old building for them to attend classes.
09/22/2009 12:45 PM CDT


shark wrote:
Lab Rat the Alamo and South Park School?????? seriously??????
09/22/2009 12:41 PM CDT


GREENIE 1969 wrote:
I want to see South Park preserved. BISD doesn't care about history cause if they did this would be over.But since BISD can't remember that South Park saved them.I applaud Judge Wortham he has a a big decision to make and I believe he will do the right thing.
09/22/2009 11:53 AM CDT


corky2 wrote:
Please don't confuse 2 very different issues. The need for a new school vs. perjury by Dr Thomas. Regarding who lied: just follow the money. Remember, Dr Thomas has made or stands to make a percentage of the bond as compensation for getting it passed. Have we forgotten that little detail? So regardless of how you feel about the need for a new school for the kids attending South Park, integrity is the point of this discussion. Millions of dollars may be going to someone who deliberately mislead those people who are paying the bill. In my book, that's very important. This, along with a history of not being truthful (homestead exemptions, problems over Curtis, etc.) indicate a pattern of behavior. The fact that the truth is coming out has nothing to do with the pros or cons of building a new school. How would Mr Reece have any knowledge of what was discussed between Ms Ortego and Dr Thomas? To testify that Dr Thomas would not have the authority to make such a statement is simply ridiculous, and is a poor attempt to cloud the issue. He also testified that he did not 'believe' that Dr Thomas made the statement. Any reasonable person would 'believe' the person who has nothing to gain from telling the truth. That person is Ms Ortego, not Dr Thomas. Again, follow the money.
09/22/2009 11:43 AM CDT


Lab Rat wrote:
Shark. It's not JUST about the children. It's about history and heritage as well. You need to grow the hell up and consider other than just your own narrow point of view. The Alamo is just a old church too, huh? Dumbazz.
09/22/2009 11:35 AM CDT


BigDaddy1 wrote:
We need to follow the bouncing ball. If we do, it will lead us to athletic complex being built. The overruns there will make saving SP look like chump change. We are being duped, wake up taxpayers.
09/22/2009 11:07 AM CDT


BigDaddy1 wrote:
Having the authority, and having made a statement are two distinct matters. Until Thomas is held accountable, nothing will change. It is most discouraging to hear the board president make that statement. Again, where is the citizens advisory committee that was established, and why are we not hearing from them. Surely this was discussed amongst them during their propaganda campaign to the voters.
09/22/2009 10:52 AM CDT


shark wrote:
Give me a break you people could care less about the children, instead you are trying to preserve a memory YOUR MEMORY. The Astrodome was a great building in it's day but guess what it is old, dilapidated, and out dated just like SP. If you are so concerned over how BISD is spending our tax money THEN QUIT MAKING THEM SPEND IT ON COURT FEES to defend tearing down an OLD building. You talk about the BEAUTY of the building, give me a break it is not like people are planning vacations to come see it. It is an old building it has old plumbing, electrical system, air and heating system, my God the fire escape is a slide........It is wonderful that you attended your first dance there, or got your first love letter on the second floor, or your favorite teacher taught there, but like I said those are YOUR memories if you want to relive them then break out your old yearbook, but build the kids a new school...
09/22/2009 10:41 AM CDT


Mamagistra wrote:
Shark, you're probably right that most children would choose new and shiny over old. They would also choose cotton candy, soda pop, and snack cakes over nutritious foods if given a choice without the guidance of thinking, caring adults to teach them the difference. South Park is not a dilapidated "memory". Rather, it is an historic structure that is eligible for inclusion on the National Register of Historic Places. It is important to all because of its beauty, its history, and its sturdy and lasting construction. We must do right by our children and preserve it.
09/22/2009 10:29 AM CDT


RNS wrote:
Cypress Fairbanks HS is a wonderful example of renovating & retaining a historic school. Take a look at it. Very similar in appearance & age. CFHS was added on & renovated to match the historic building & it is beautiful!
09/22/2009 10:24 AM CDT


the trainman wrote:
Go forward and not backward. We had our turn now lets do something for our Children and Grandchildren. Tear the building down,up with the new and focus on real problems for this great City of Beaumont.
09/22/2009 10:22 AM CDT


Mamagistra wrote:
Bowd, whatever the children are "suffering" is a direct result of BISD's mishandling of maintenance and monies year after year. The egos to which you refer are surely those of Thomas and the board, for they are the folks who have lied to and cheated taxpayers in an underhanded attempt to destroy a proud and meaningful part of Beaumont and the district (which was formerly known as the South Park Independent School District, in case you didn't know).
09/22/2009 10:20 AM CDT


shark wrote:
I actually live in a new house, so thanks for making my point for me, which is given the option I chose a NEW house. Why not pick our kids up in Model T's to bring them to this OLD BUILDING. If the Heritage Society wants the building so bad tell them to purchase if from BISD at market value, then they can make it a museum, or a Day care, a strip mall, or a strip club for all I care. But for the CHILDRENS sake build them a BRIGHT SHINEY NEW SCHOOL. Sadly as with any old building the memories of that old school belong to the ones that went there. These kids could care less that the building was built in 1922 or 1982 if given the choice the vast majority of the children would pick a bright new building over this delapidated memory that so many of you are hanging on to. You are delaying these kids future by tieing all of this up in court..... LET IT GO
09/22/2009 10:11 AM CDT


shirley q wrote:
Jolene Ortego has integrity and standing in the community. Kudos to her for coming forward and telling the truth, however painful it may be to contradict her former boss. Woodrow Reece has an agenda to tear down this building, so it's no big shock he would cover for Thomas like that.
09/22/2009 10:09 AM CDT


Mamagistra wrote:
Shark, the age of the building has nothing to do with this. Even Dr. Thomas himself has written: I believe that facilities done right will stand the test of time. A building constructed 50 years ago, if done right, should look as good and function as well as it did the first day its doors opened (from BISD's OneVision newsletter, 11-18-2008). Truth is, Thomas and Co. are *the* reason South Park stands in disrepair at present. Blatant neglect and denial of standard maintenance have caused the (mostly exaggerated) state of the school. Yet all we hear is: let it go, we need new, history is unimportant. I ask you: where is the outrage of taxpayers who are footing the bill to correct this board's mistakes? Where is the furor over this swollen bond, tricked out of the pockets of citizens to replace instead of renovate? South Park is an historic structure, a landmark for the South Park neighborhood and an icon for the whole city. Its complete renovation and modernization would demonstrate to our youth the importance of preserving history and resources, A renovated South Park would not only transform the area with its status as the most unique and beautiful school in the city, it would save taxpayer dollars, as well. Thomas and the board know their fate; the strong and beautiful facade of South Park should not share it. LET HER STAND!
09/22/2009 10:08 AM CDT


fredsaid wrote:
shark, you obviously live in an old dilapidated house and would like a new one, poor analogy. The South Park School Building is a very well built, classic piece of architecture. We do not tear down historic buildings without giving up our heritage. It would be much more cost effective to refurbish the building than to build a new one. In fact no one could afford to build a building like the present one today, it would be too expensive
09/22/2009 09:32 AM CDT


bowd wrote:
I think that it is ashame that those chilldren have to suffer because adults can overcome thier egos and allow this new school to be built. If you dont like Thomas than that is fine and okay but seriously this has gone on long enough. The next time the school board is up for reelection..find an opponent to run against them and get them out there; its that simple. Even if there was to be an election I believe that only the residents of that area and those that work there should be allowed to vote.
09/22/2009 09:25 AM CDT


illwill wrote:
why is it whenever someone talks about carol thomas they bring up his salary i think that the real reason people hate him
09/22/2009 09:19 AM CDT


shark wrote:
That said, Thomas needs to go... along with the old building.
09/22/2009 08:58 AM CDT


shark wrote:
Give it a break people the school is old and delapidated. This building served its purpose now it is time to move on.... Think about this if you had the option of someone refurbishing your house, or giving you a brand new house which would you take. Tear the eye sore down and build the KIDS a state fo the art new school....... let it go people
09/22/2009 08:55 AM CDT


Wavy Gravy wrote:
Let's cut to the chase here. Thomas is a lying sack of SH!T. He wants lots of salary and more than that..............POWER. That includes the power to lie, cheat, conveniently forget, resolve old political disputes and just whatever the hell this maniac desires on a whim to do as a full fledged sieg heil dictator. Oust the beyotch!
09/22/2009 08:27 AM CDT


fredsaid wrote:
DR Thomas can not remember what he says!! Could it be Alzheimer's?? Could it be lying?? Woodrow Reece is chasing his tail again!! First he said Thomas did not have authority to tell Ortego anything, then he said the school board always follows Thomas' recommendations. Reece needs to learn a real court is different than a school board meeting, and he can not edit the transcript!!!
09/22/2009 07:57 AM CDT


HillebrandtHoney wrote:
You know it's not just Dr Thomas (who really needs to be dismissed), it's the BISD school board members who are also responsible that this has gone on too long. They have been given proof several times that Dr Thomas lied, yet they did nothing. They could step up as trustees and end this once and for all. Have some integrity today. Call a special session, fire Dr Thomas, and stop the trial by conceeding. Save the taxpayers the lawyers fees. Turn SPHS building into something good for the community and the district. There is still plenty of land there to build a new school building. Geez - give me a break!
09/22/2009 07:22 AM CDT


former yankee wrote:
I heard last nite that the attorney for the Heritage Society is considering an election to make the decision as to the fate of South Park. They need to stick with the historical building and forget the lying. Unfortunately, that is what most elected officials do....The building is part of this cities past, and it must remain standing....I am hoping that the attorney for the Heritage Society stays on point, this building is old, has lots of history and is a registered building with the state.....NO ELECTION
09/22/2009 07:03 AM CDT


Lab Rat wrote:
It's all about destroying a landmark building that represents history. The BISD is a paid hitman of sorts to make South Park a complete past tense story. South Park represents success. BISD went insolvent. They represent failure. If they tear down the building into nothing it will be like Iran saying the holocaust never happened.......so as to say South Park and the founding of Lamar University was nothing. South Park in fact is very much alive as is Lamar University. And, there are those out there who are trying to save what's left of a proud heritage. If history is worth teaching in school, it's worth practicing in real life. Otherwise history is meaningless. But, we're also finding out that our school leaders are misguided and lead false lives. They lie and cheat. They set bad examples as grownups. Shame on Carrol Thomas and his band of fools.
09/22/2009 06:57 AM CDT


pet wrote:
Three homesteads, to be exact. Anyone who would pull that stunt is either too stupid or too crooked to be in charge of public money.
09/22/2009 06:53 AM CDT


pall2509 wrote:
You cannot call into question something that does not exist, that is integrity, as Thomas has none. Unfortunately he is passing that on to Melody, and she is a quick learner!! We all knew Thomas had none when he "conveniently" forgot he had more than one homestead. He is a scam and a liar but the school board (most) is blind and deaf!
09/22/2009 06:43 AM CDT